Subject: YTSEJAM digest 251
From: email_address_removed
To: Multiple recipients of list <email_address_removed>

Contents:
meanings (hartman larry <email_address_removed>)
Re: stupid question and video response (email_address_removed (Ed Payne))
trying again because of undeliverable mail crap.. (MF1788%email_address_removed)
Re: Song meanings (Martin A Hennemann <email_address_removed>)
Re: stupid question and video response (Martin A Hennemann <email_address_removed>)
Re: YTSEJAM digest 250 (Matthew T Pulver <[email-masked]>)
Re: meanings (William T Bajzek <[email-masked]>)
Re: meanings (email_address_removed (Steve Mansfield))
Re:  meanings (Martin A Hennemann <email_address_removed>)
Joining (email_address_removed.au (Hugh Blemmings))
RE: meanings (Just call me Goober!! <email_address_removed>)
Eve in Dances Of Eternity??? (Michael Burstin <email_address_removed>)
crowd size on video (Michael Burstin <email_address_removed>)
song meanings (Brent Phillips <email_address_removed>)
LIT ("Michael E. Patrick" <email_address_removed>)
RE: Eve in Dances Of Eternity??? (Just call me Goober!! <email_address_removed>)
Ragnorock (email_address_removed (Michael A. Daugherty))
Surrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrounded. . . (email_address_removed)
Re: Song meanings (Stephen Bajzek <[email-masked]>)
subscribe ytsejam Mark Ruenes (email_address_removed)
Re:  song meanings (Martin A Hennemann <email_address_removed>)
Re: Stupid question (email_address_removed.de (Christian Schmolzi))
Re: stupid question and video response ("Paul W. Cashman" <email_address_removed>)
Surrounded (email_address_removed.ac.uk)
Re: LIT ("Paul W. Cashman" <email_address_removed>)
Re: Ragnorock ("Paul W. Cashman" <email_address_removed>)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 11:22:20 -0500 (EST)
From: hartman larry <email_address_removed>
Subject: meanings

Yeah, I would also like to know what some/any/all of the songs are about.

It seems like we have got answers for a Fortune in Lies and the KIlling Hand,
how about some others like MEtro. Surrounded or just about anything.

Also, how is ytsejam pronounced?  I have always said - yit-see jam.
It this correct?  Does anyone know where the name comes from or what it means?

I love the guitar solo at the end of To Live Forever and Take the Time!
INCREDIBLE STUFF!

Jason Hartman

"I am the Killing Hand!"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 12:56:21 EST
From: email_address_removed (Ed Payne)
Subject: Re: stupid question and video response

>> Video stuff:  I bought the dt vid wednesday (was in a hurry to go see primus
>> after class tuesday), and i must say i am very impressed.  I was a little 
>> disappointed at the song selection.  I was at least expecting metropolis.  
>> But the inclusion of ytse jam is reason enough to buy the vid.  Incredible 
>> shots of Myung's monstrous bass runs.  Too bad you can't hear them all that
>> well on the albums.  And Petrucci is absolutely a monster.  (Little overuse on
>
>Well, at least they mixed the bass well on the video.

	I thought _Under A Glass Moon_ was quite a bit low, but it improved
for the other songs.  BTW, I thought the video was very well done, too!
It was extremely clear, as far as picture quality goes.  That scene with
Kevin signing that woman's... well, you know. ;^)  It was hilarious.  It
amazed me that everyone was acting just like it was any other autograph.  I
wonder if it was legible. ;^)  Adios...

Ed Payne

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
 | ...To each other they will soon  | email_address_removed       |
 |    return. Destiny fulfilled,    | Harris Corporation                 |
 |    the words will burn... an     | Melbourne, Fl                      |
 |    eternal flame.                | 32902                              |
 |                                  -------------------------------------|
 |       <|> Journey From Mariabronn - Kansas <|>                        |
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 12:57:49 -0500 (EST)
From: MF1788%email_address_removed
Subject: trying again because of undeliverable mail crap..

From:   IN%"email_address_removed" 22-NOV-1993 10:43:44.75
To:     IN%"@UACSC2.ALBANY.edu:email_address_removed"  "MF1788"
CC:
Subj:   Returned mail: unknown mailer error 1

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 08:52:02 -0500
From: email_address_removed
Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 1
To: MF1788 <@UACSC2.ALBANY.edu:email_address_removed>

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
uux failed ( -1 )
554 <email_address_removed>... unknown mailer error 1

   ----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from uacsc2.albany.edu by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) vi
a SMTP;
        id AA13876 for ytsejam; Mon, 22 Nov 93 08:52:02 -0500
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 08:49:51 -0500 (EST)
From: email_address_removed
Subject: Re: WFS and LTL connection?
To: email_address_removed

  /quote
/quote
I can't do that shit!!!

Anyway, its pretty obvious that LTL is a derivation from WFS or WFS is the
intro to that song. Especially since WFS is only like 2 mins long. It has
The whole album is summed up with the last song. The album is about
coping with lifes problems...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 16:31:19 -0500
From: Martin A Hennemann <email_address_removed>
Subject: Re: Song meanings

> Someone mentioned earlier that "The Killing Hand" might be based on an
> SF story by John Petrucci.  I've always liked the fantasy flavor of
> "Surrounded" (as well as other songs on I&W), so maybe there's a
> similar concept behind "Surrounded", some sort of fantasy theme or
> tale?

  I guess that's possible.  Anyone have any ideas? I'd like to know
positively what my favorite song is about *grin* 
   Chris

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 16:36:30 -0500
From: Martin A Hennemann <email_address_removed>
Subject: Re: stupid question and video response

  I agree on Another Day.  It was a great video, and there was nothing wrong
with it.  Maybe it just wasn't sleezy enough for MTV.  I've never really had
a high respect for MTV *shrug*  And this just adds to it.  
  Is Another day on the I&W video?  Just curious.  I saw it on that rock
monthly video.  A friend of mine has it, and knows I am big on DT so showed
me it.  I loved it.
  Chris

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 16:47:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew T Pulver <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 250

Excerpts from mail: 22-Nov-93 YTSEJAM digest 250 by email_address_removed 
> As I said, I'm not
> 100% sure about the meaning, but I always thoguht of it as this guy who's 
> girlfriend(wife?) just broke up with him.  Lines that I feel support this
> (god, I feel like I'm analyzing a poem for class!) "I know it's easier,
> to walk away then look it in the eye.  But I have given all that I could
> take, and now I've only habits left to break" also "When I heard the
> stained glass shatter all around me" and "By a candle stands a mirror
> of his heart and soul she dances.  She was dancing thru the night about his
> head."  And (hmm, maybe I am right about this one, huh? :) "And walking
> to the window .... And from an Ivory tower hears her call, 'Let the light
> surround you.'") (although I'm not really sure how the light has to do
> with anything.  Any ideas?)

    I agree.  I always have taken a pretty personal interpretation of
this song.  I had a hard time getting over an ex.  I think you  hit the
nail on the head with the meaning.  Maybe the light has something to do
with the guy finally getting over the woman as he "throws the shudders
against the wall (he opens his eyes and sees the light)"  Do you get it?
 Maybe?  It's probably my favorite song.

Excerpts from mail: 22-Nov-93 YTSEJAM digest 250 by email_address_removed 
> Ragnorak, in Norse mythology, was the battle to end all battles.  It would
> be the end of that generation of Gods and the end of the evil gods as well,
> and the borth of the new Gods.  When wariiors died in battle, their souls
> were carried by the Valkyrie to Valhalla, to prepare to fight in this
> final, immortal battle.

You're right.  I remeber teh guy using something else from Norse
Mythology in his post, though I don't remember what it was.  Only one
small criticism that the only reason I point out is because it seems as
though you like Norse Myth, as I do and I though tI could help a fellow
DT and Norse Mythology fan out.  Technically there are no evil gods
(except maybe Loki), just Giants that are generally evil.  If you want
to get a discussion bout the Myths going, just email me at
email_address_removed so we don't waste any DT fans time. I probably
should've emailed this to you personally, but I wasn't thinking.  Sorry
to nitpik on a non-DT item.  Can't wait to see teh Video!!!!!

_Matt Pulver

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 17:10:02 -0500 (EST)
From: William T Bajzek <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: meanings

On "Dance of Eternity", James clearly pronounces it "Yit-see Jam" like
you said.

Bill

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 18:03:50 -0500 (EST)
From: email_address_removed (Steve Mansfield)
Subject: Re: meanings

> It seems like we have got answers for a Fortune in Lies and the KIlling Hand,
> how about some others like MEtro. Surrounded or just about anything.

Hmmm, Metropolis:  I've always taken it to be a sort of harsh look on life.
The song moves between three scenes, depicting the three eternal "facts of
life."  Death, deceit, and love.  Each scene presents not so much a story,
as much as a sketch of the "dance" being described.  The first of a young
girl's loss of a parent.  The second of a youth being taught many lessons,
which he was counting on, but none of them being true.  The third of a
motherly "being" who promises to return all beings to their rightful homes,
once they've learned to get along with one another.  Once they've learned
to love.

> Also, how is ytsejam pronounced?  I have always said - yit-see jam.
> It this correct?  Does anyone know where the name comes from or what it means?

Yes, it is pronouced the way above.  The bands original name was Majesty.
Read it backwards.

Steve Mansfield  | Once you're touched you stand alone to face the bitter fight
email_address_removed | Once I reached for love but now I reach for life.
Dream Theater - Learning to Live

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 18:04:42 -0500
From: Martin A Hennemann <email_address_removed>
Subject: Re:  meanings

  Ytsejam comes from DT's old group name, Majesty, spelled backwards :)
Cool, huh?  As for how to pronounce it...  Your way sounded good *chuckle*
   Chris

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 10:02:07 EST
From: email_address_removed.au (Hugh Blemmings)
Subject: Joining

Hi,

How do I subscribe to the list ?

Thanks
Hugh

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 18:38:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Just call me Goober!! <email_address_removed>
Subject: RE: meanings

Ytsejam spells majesty backwards which was their orig. band name. I don't think
they put out any albums under that name though. However I do know that there
are demos from when they were called majesty. later, Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 19:03:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Burstin <email_address_removed>
Subject: Eve in Dances Of Eternity???

I have one question to ask.  I saw on a revision of the DT discography
that someone has labeled the intro on the beginning of Pull Me Under
on disc 2 of Dances of Eternity as Eve.  Is this correct.  My copy
makes no mention of Eve.  I assume that the person has another CD or
video that labels it as Eve.  (I am taking about the 5 or 6 min
talking very calm beginning of disc 2)

-- 
Michael Burstin 	Brandeis University
Let's Go Pens  Let's Go Pens  Let's Go Pens 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 19:06:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Burstin <email_address_removed>
Subject: crowd size on video

Has anyone out there noticed the size of the crowd at the DT show in
Tokyo where the video was filmed.  It is HUGE.  I saw DT in a small
tent (that's right a tent) in Pittsburgh, and there were at most 1000
people, probably a lot less, but I couldn't see because I was about 5
feet from the stage :)  Anyway, this looked like relatively large
arena, and it was packed.  It looked like the place held 15000+
people.  Is DT that much bigger in other countries?  I know that James
says on Consciously Unreal that I&W was voted best CD of the year in
Italy!  Anyone out there know?  For those non-American's reading, is
DT very popular in your country?!?

-- 
Michael Burstin 	Brandeis University
Let's Go Pens  Let's Go Pens  Let's Go Pens 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 20:39:34 -0500
From: Brent Phillips <email_address_removed>
Subject: song meanings

Well as far as how to pronounce "ytsejam", I too at first thought that
it was "yit-see-jam", but then I thought that it might also be
pronounced "it's-a-jam", which I thought was pretty funny...

"Wait for Sleep" seems to be about a woman whose husband/boyfriend has
just died. Lots of good lines to support this, due to the references
to ashes, fire, memories, etc. I especially like the line "God give me
the power to take breath from a breeze, and call life from a cold
metal frame" - it makes me think of her staring at a picture of him
and wishing that she could bring him back to life (hence "call life
from a cold metal frame".) And, of course, "now, and forever cold,
in my heart and the heart of the world", "in the heart of the world"
meaning buried in the Earth. (Thanks to Cristian for that one!)

"Surrounded" is a bit tougher, but I'll take a guess anyway. The song
seems to be about life's problems and finding the meaning in all
of the day to day bs that we all put up with. "She" is hope, and it
is the light of hope that keeps us going when things seem otherwise
hopeless - "of his heart and soul she dances, she was dancing through the
night above his bed". I take the line "I can see much clearer now I'm
blind" to mean that if we become blinded by the seeming hopelessness of
day-to-day life then we will never be able to accomplish anything; we
need to have the light of hope blind us to the seemingly unending 
stream of life's little disappointments. I could be wrong, but
this seems plausible, considering that (as someone mentioned) the
whole album is about "dealing with life". Please let me know what
you think!

- Brent
email_address_removed

------------------------------

Date: 22 Nov 93 20:49:25 EST
From: "Michael E. Patrick" <email_address_removed>
Subject: LIT

All of this talk about song meanings is really facinating, BUT WHY THE HELL 
HAVEN'T ALL OF YOU BOUGHT THE VIDEO YET !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

As for the three 'MTV' vids - I don't think there are full length versions 
- if there were, they'd have included them for the video.  Given how 
expensive it is, it's understandable why they didn't shoot a full one for 
'Take the Time'.  Would you rather pay to produce a 4:30 minute video or a 
6:30 one?  Big difference.

Mike

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 21:04:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Just call me Goober!! <email_address_removed>
Subject: RE: Eve in Dances Of Eternity???

it must be another cd because my copy of Dances of Eternity don't mention
it either.  I believe Eve i on another bootleg ( i forget what it's called)
later, Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 23:02:26 EST
From: email_address_removed (Michael A. Daugherty)
Subject: Ragnorock

	Ragnorock was the name of the channel on IRC I created to discuss
progressive and alternative music, but due to low turnout, I discontinued it.
However, If I get enough responses I will bring it back.  The definition of
ragnarock given earlier was entirely correct.  Thanks for the explanation.

	On a tangent, How is Pull me under about Hamlet? I havent read it in
a while so any explanation would be handy.   
	About Surrounded: I simply thought it was about a person who was
forced to make a tough decision, and after the decision was made he felt
relieved, enlightened if you will. It could be the decision to break up with
someone, that would fit in nicely.  But it seems that the decider is guided
by fate (visions of spirits dancing by his head came to my mind).  In the
end, the right decision was made (at least I get that feeling.)
	Anyone have any idea of what metropolis or under a glass moon means?
Theyre both so rich in symbolism its hard to get the true meaning.

+Michael

-- 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 23:40:43 -0500 (EST)
From: email_address_removed
Subject: Surrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrounded. . .

As I remember, Surrounded lyrics are by Kevin Moore?  I could be wrong.  If
I'm right about that, I remember reading that Petrucci's lyrics are based on
stories and Moore's lyrics are based on spiritual and religious ideas rather
than specific events.  That should help those of you who are trying to decipher
the song's meaning, rule out anything coherent now! :)
I REALLY want to see this video!  Anybody wanna give me a long-term loan? :)
What do you guys think of Petrucci's recent columns in Guitar World?  Some
interesting techniques.
First DT show:  Dec. 1992:  about 50 in the crowd.
Last DT show (so far!):  Summer 1993:  about 5,000 in the crowd!
An increase of 100 x in six months, not bad!
Is anyone familiar with the band Meanstreak, which features Petrucci's wife on
guitar and Portnoy's girlfriend on bass?  (No disrespect intended, I forgot
their names!  But I think the gutarist is Reyna. . .)

				Party on,

				Aaron
				ASILVERM@UMIAMI

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 00:42:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Stephen Bajzek <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Song meanings

Excerpts from mail: 22-Nov-93 YTSEJAM digest 250 by email_address_removed 
> I think Dream Theater consciously chooses to bring a little more insight to
> their lyrics that most bands.
> 

Yeah, but it's still about sex. Maybe I should say the role of sex in
relationships?
    "When it's LUST to dust, you can crawl from the wreckage"
Lust isn't in there for gratuity. Obviously, a one word synopsis is a
dimplification but the point is it's pretty obvious what this one is
about.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 01:46:25 EST
From: email_address_removed
Subject: subscribe ytsejam Mark Ruenes

Hope this is right for a subscription.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 03:22:38 -0500
From: Martin A Hennemann <email_address_removed>
Subject: Re:  song meanings

  Wouldn't it be really cool if one of the band members logged on here,
and mailed what the songs meant? *chuckle*  Save us lots of speculation,
huh?  And we'd all probably find out that we were WAY off.
     Chris

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 10:09:14 +0100
From: email_address_removed.de (Christian Schmolzi)
Subject: Re: Stupid question

>Stupid question:   Whatever happeed to #ragnorock on irc?  I only saw it in
>existence for like one day.  Any what did ragnorock mean?  Where did the name
>come from?
As far as I know there is a swedish progressive band named "Ragnarok".    
According to a list of a progressive-music-shop there exists at least
one album called "Well". Their music is described as "instrumental, experimental
see J.M. Jarre", but I haven't heard anything from them. But since they
seem to do progressive music, this could be the link to the #ragnorock on irc.

So long
Chris
--
Christian Schmolzi, Universitaet des Saarlandes, Saarbruecken, Germany
email_address_removed.de
* As a child I thought I could live without pain, without sorrow *
					Dream Theater

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 01:16:59 -0800 (PST)
From: "Paul W. Cashman" <email_address_removed>
Subject: Re: stupid question and video response

> 
>   I agree on Another Day.  It was a great video, and there was nothing wrong
> with it.  Maybe it just wasn't sleezy enough for MTV.  I've never really had
> a high respect for MTV *shrug*  And this just adds to it.  

The 'real' reason is sleazier, of course.  Atlantic just didn't push
it enough.  And the sleazier you think 'pushing' entails, you're
probably right.

>   Is Another day on the I&W video?  Just curious.  I saw it on that rock
> monthly video.  A friend of mine has it, and knows I am big on DT so showed
> me it.  I loved it.

Yes, it's on I&W.     Which rock monthly video did you see it on?  I
first saw the video on Metal Vision Vol. 40, a compilation of metal
videos ("Another Day"?) sent out to music/video stores to play on
their in-store monitors.     

Of course, we found these in the trash dumpster behind the store. :P
--Minutes before it rained.  :)

--Paul, who's glad he watched the I&W video since now he has to watch
the new Metallica live vidz; I'll pack a lunch, be back sometime near
Christmas.....   hehe

-- 
Once you're touched you stand alone  |     Paul W. Cashman  
To face the bitter fight             |     email_address_removed
Once I reached for love              |     Dream Theater 
And now I reach for life             | <-  "Learning to Live"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 08:58:05 GMT
From: email_address_removed.ac.uk
Subject: Surrounded

Hi,
  I've always thought that Surrounded was about someone losing (or changing)
his/her religion.  There are lots of religious double meanings in the
song (stained glass, see the light etc).  I always interpreted it as
a guy finally making a decision to choose one particular faith, and being
ecstatic about it.  The faith he chose isn't mentioned specifically, it
could even be Science, i.e. not religious per se (ivory towers, stained
glass shattering = breaking religious dogma?).  The spirit he keeps after
rejecting the others would be that of his new religion, or of Reason.
He once could see (but only what his old religion told him to) but now at
last he's blind (to their dogma?).
   The song is all about Seeing the Light - it can be interpreted both
from a Christian perspective & a scientific one.

    Any comments...?

    Paul May, University of Bristol, UK

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 01:40:24 -0800 (PST)
From: "Paul W. Cashman" <email_address_removed>
Subject: Re: LIT

> All of this talk about song meanings is really facinating, BUT WHY THE HELL 
> HAVEN'T ALL OF YOU BOUGHT THE VIDEO YET !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Take some decaf, please...  Some of us DID buy the vid, even knowing
that the new 'Tallica box set was coming out soon, and (in my case)
not getting my unemployment check this week.  :P

> As for the three 'MTV' vids - I don't think there are full length versions 
> - if there were, they'd have included them for the video.  Given how 
> expensive it is, it's understandable why they didn't shoot a full one for 
> 'Take the Time'.

I think you're right.  There was no reason to produce a longer video
because there was NO way it would be aired in its entirety.  Michael
Jackson, Metallica, sure, but DT?  Sorry, not enough fan response.
Yet, anyway....

In the music biz, a minute on MTV is worth a half-hour on any single
radio station in the US.  Airtime on MTV is the single most prized
commodity in new music today.  If a label wants it, they HAVE to play
by MTV's rules, except in a few rare cases like the ones I cited
above.  No, it isn't right, but that's the way things are.

  Would you rather pay to produce a 4:30 minute video or a 
> 6:30 one?  Big difference.

"Take the Time" is 8:21.  Too long, really, for radio, let alone MTV.
(They like nice, safe stuff that's less than 6 minutes long.)

-- 
Once you're touched you stand alone  |     Paul W. Cashman  
To face the bitter fight             |     email_address_removed
Once I reached for love              |     Dream Theater 
And now I reach for life             | <-  "Learning to Live"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 01:47:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "Paul W. Cashman" <email_address_removed>
Subject: Re: Ragnorock

> 	Ragnorock was the name of the channel on IRC I created to discuss
> progressive and alternative music, but due to low turnout, I discontinued it.
> However, If I get enough responses I will bring it back.  The definition of
> ragnarock given earlier was entirely correct.  Thanks for the explanation.

Don't be too discouraged if no-one shows up.  I saw it there and (I
think) joined the channel at least once, but if I /list a channel and
there's only one participant and it's obviously a 'bot, I generally
don't bother joining.  Be persistent and be sure to set a /topic.
Better yet, use a more descriptive channel name, like, say, #prog-rock
or (what I use when I'm on) #DreamTheater.  :)

-- 
Once you're touched you stand alone  |     Paul W. Cashman  
To face the bitter fight             |     email_address_removed
Once I reached for love              |     Dream Theater 
And now I reach for life             | <-  "Learning to Live"

------------------------------
End of Digest
************************